Tigerstar
Champion Author
Montgomery
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2008 2:28:42 PM
Same as Dreama71 - Most stations here will not give out prices over the phone.
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shane8005
Champion Author
Ohio
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Message Posted: Aug 19, 2008 10:31:24 PM
i think the wheels might have actually been greasier and smoother running before credit cards came about. i mean commerce has been around for quite some time. credit cards haven't. are you 18?
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Sneakers55
Champion Author
Houston
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Message Posted: Aug 19, 2008 9:41:29 PM
cornerman wrote:
>The stations are getting at up by the credit card companies charges
Better to be at up than be at down.
>and people in the U.S are to blind to see the big picture.
Credit and debit cards are the grease that keep the wheels of commerce from squeaking.
>Help your localstation out by paying cash for your fuel and if
>more people would do that it should lower prices at the current
>price of fuel by 6-7 cents a gallon.
Or use a card with the oil company's logo on it. In a lot of cases (all cases in some states, like Texas) they don't charge the merchant any merchant fees.
Some stations around Houston are offering a discount for cash or credit cards issued by the franchiser, passing along their savings.
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Sneakers55
Champion Author
Houston
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Message Posted: Aug 19, 2008 9:29:01 PM
gasmizer11 wrote:
>How much does a gas station make in a day or week or month? What
>are the costs of doing business? CaptSquid says there is
>insurance, wages, utilities, taxes and licence fees. I am
>positive there are more expenses.
I don't know if it's the case where you're located, but Chevron has been making their franchisees put up new, large, easier to read signage.
The only downside is that the new signs only have space for regular (and Diesel fuel, if they sell it). Most of them have nice bright LEDs, red for regular and green for Diesel.
>In Canada it is said that the average retailer only makes 3-4
>cents profit on every litre of gas or diesel, how is it in
>the US that they only make 3-4 cents per gallon when a
>gallon is 3.8 times more than a litre?? Should it not
>be closer to 9-12 cents profit??
They probably profit more in Canada as you're more likely to use a debit card than they are in the USA.
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shane8005
Champion Author
Ohio
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Message Posted: Aug 19, 2008 6:47:38 PM
i almost always pay cash.
the fight is against high prices, and i have no pity for the higher priced stations, or for whoever "isn't making a good profit." it wasn't my idea for them to get into the business, and it wasn't my idea for prices to triple in no time. i will mercilessly pay only the lowest local price.
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cornerman
Veteran Author
Idaho
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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2008 1:39:37 PM
Shane you dont get it at all dude, the fight against high prices isnt against the establishment selling you the gas.That establishment if it were to try and run on the gas profits couldnt even buy their employees lunch.The stations are getting at up by the credit card companies charges and people in the U.S are to blind to see the big picture. Help your localstation out by paying cash for your fuel and if more people would do that it should lower prices at the current price of fuel by 6-7 cents a gallon.Thats the best and most effective way to take charge on fuel prices because with the 70-75 percent rate of people paying with credit cards the fuel stations are getting ate up by these cost and cannot take it in the derrier much longer
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gasmizer11
Veteran Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2008 6:50:49 AM
Gross profit is the money made before expenses are paid, and from which the expenses are paid, net profit the the money left after expenses are paid before taxes, net profit after taxes, well that is self-explanatory. Thank you for the entire list of expenses that a business potentially would have to pay. That makes it even more difficult to believe that anyone would want to be in the service station business. The figures that I provided were from one of you, based on a average service stations making $200-400 per day profit. Then I am told that it is the money that is left after paying for fuel, then I am told that out of that $400 a day the entire list of bills must be paid out of those funds which would be $11,200 per month. I do not need to ask a retailer because firstly he/she has no obligation to tell my anything. So I suppose I am left to believe that they are just working poor?? No one is crawfishin' CaptSquid I have provided figures, I have done the math, you are all obviously the experts in this field. Who better to ask than the experts right??
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catfish99
Champion Author
Wilmington
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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2008 5:53:44 AM
It is pretty obvious some of the posters here have never worked for, let alone run, a small business. There is a huge difference between gross profit and net profit. But reading the articles I linked below would explain the difference-station "profit" (the gross) gets eaten up by expenses.
This is not my opinion. This is fact as reported by the Post, USA Today, and many other major media outlets. However, some folks obviously are too close-minded to realize they are dead wrong, and continue to post their opinion. First rule of holes, gasmizer. First rule of holes.
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blinktwice
Veteran Author
Milwaukee
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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2008 3:15:47 AM
Just signup for a 5-day free trial at OPISNET.com. You can see the wholesale pricing that retailers pay in various regions. Compare that with the local gasbuddy averages, and then you'll know.
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CaptSquid
Champion Author
Billings
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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2008 3:12:56 AM
Didn't I tell you to ask an owner/franchisee for yourself, gasmizer? Do your own research. Get your information straight from the horse's mouth.
It's somewhat comical, gasmizer, that you should tell us that we are blowing smoke; that we should back up our rhetoric with facts and figures when you consistently crawfish out of the same questions asked of you.
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theRealAirness
Veteran Author
Vancouver
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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2008 1:17:03 AM
I called a Chevron gas station and asked for the gas prices. They refused to give me information. It is a good thing. There is responsible citizen from VancouverGasPrices.com. Got the price qoutes that I wanted.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author
Winnipeg
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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2008 12:38:37 AM
gasmizer11 asks: "How do they do it??"
Well, you are the one who has been telling us you know how rich they are, but you have never quoted figures from an actual retailer. It has been suggested you talk to a retailer and find out, because you sure as heck don't believe any of us. Have you ever even worked for any business, and it doesn't have to be fuel, where you have had access to the actual figures for money in, and money out? I have, and we had products that earned us 20% gross, we had products that earned us 5%, and people would still accuse of of getting rich. We had to collect and remit taxes that paid a MAXIMUM commission of $100 for a month, no matter how much we collected, yet we were responsible for the collecting, the safekeeping, the paper and printing for each and every transaction, the staff time to prepare the remittance every month, and the courier costs to send in the report complete with a copy of every transaction, and the cheque. Out of our 5% to 20% we had to pay rent, utilities, security company, bank fees, debit/credit fees, wages, taxes (municipal, provincial, federal, employment), workers compensation, commercial insurance, top-up health insurance, computers, internet and intranet costs, office cleaning, maintenance, IT, window cleaning, renovations, office furniture, software, signs, storage, travel expenses, courier and postage, parking lot maintenance, alarm licence fees, licencing for all staff to conduct business in the profession, training and courses every year to keep the licences, payroll processing expenses,leasing of copiers and phone network equipment, paper, shredding service for expired sensitive documents, display materials, staff and public washroom supplies, and on, and on, and on. Plus, if we didn't meet a certain volume with a given company, we lost our contract. The same thing happens with service stations and smaller distributors, by the way, 2 Shell distributors in our areas were closed out some time back, leaving us without a source for Shell heating fuel. One distributor also had a service station which they put out of business, the other snagged a contract with another company.
[Edited by: rumbleseat at 8/18/2008 12:42:44 AM EST]
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gasmizer11
Veteran Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2008 12:14:33 AM
So now many gas retailers are only open 8 hrs a day?? And only manned by 1 person?? Many of the gas stations I seem to encounter are open 24/7 and have at time 2 staff on hand, exception being the midnight shift. Many have car washes that are also manned a good portion of the day. With the numbers that I have been given on this string there is no way any business person would ever consider opening a gas station if there would always be a loss at the end of the month. They might be able to pay for the fuel and bills but certainly not wages for their staff or for themselves. Can anyone tell me what the insurance premiums would be on a gas station? What about hydro, water, and heat? What about credit card fees?? If they make $2800 a week and $11,200 per month, what would be left for Joe to take home?? Wages would account for roughly 48% of the monthly costs, leaving 52% for the other expenses. So do these retailers only take home $200 per month? $2400 per year?? How do they do it??
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CaptSquid
Champion Author
Billings
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 11:45:49 PM
Stations that sell gas only usally are manned by ONE person and are only open around 8 hours a day. Other stations make their money off of services, be they mechanical or C-Store. Even then, they normally aren't open 24 hours.
If there are three people on the clock, one of them may be the owner/franchisee. He pays his own wage, usually reduced, after all the other bills are paid.
Go talk to an owner/franchisee for yourself.
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gasmizer11
Veteran Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 11:18:36 PM
$400 doesn't go very far to pay wages, insurance, utilities etc...not to mention giving the owner/operator something to take home. I wonder how they do it then?? If this owner employs 3 people at minimum wage, which in Canada is over $8.00 an hour and runs them each on 8 hour shifts that equates to $192 per day just on wages. That is $1344 per week out of $2800. So he is left with what?? $1400 a month to pay rent, insurance, utilities, credit card fees etc...?? C'mon there is no way that is possible. I would assume that the $400 is net profit, of course he/she would have to pay some sort of corporate tax on that every pay period. So I am sure it is a bit less than $400 per day net profit after tax
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CaptSquid
Champion Author
Billings
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 11:00:02 PM
That $400 daily profit is on FUEL ONLY. That is after the fuel bill to the wholesaler is paid. With that $400 daily, the station has to pay its other bills.
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gasmizer11
Veteran Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 10:36:16 PM
No confusion Rumbleseat. I was also using numbers based on blinktwice post. So basically you are wanting me to believe that a gas retailer makes a portion of the profit they claim to make on fuel?? There would be no privately run gas stations if that were the case. blinktwice spit out some figures and I did the math. In that case you are telling me that the private gas retailers are the working poor then?? Making almost no money after all the expenses are paid?? What is it going to be?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author
Winnipeg
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 10:17:00 PM
gasmizer11, a station capable of attracting and serving as many vehicles as you talk about likely has a million-dollar mortgage, and huge business and real estate tax bills. Again, you confuse gross and net profit per gallon.
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gasmizer11
Veteran Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 9:59:43 PM
$400 per day which is at best $2800 per week and $145,600 per year. That is PROFIT after ALL other expenses are paid. When you add in the in-store items and other extras, I am sure it could be close to $150,000 or more per year. Why is it that in the US a retailer makes 5 cents per gallon and up here they can make anywhere from 2-4 cents per litre. There are 3.8 litres to 1 US gallon. So do our retailers make 3 times the profit??
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blinktwice
Veteran Author
Milwaukee
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 8:07:56 PM
I donno where you're getting $2000 a day. Average retailer makes about 5 cents a gallon on about 4000 gallons a day. The best, most popular stations, do 8000 per day and those are very very rare. That, my friend, is $200-$400 per day, and is probably just enough to cover the mortgage payments.
Also regarding C-store items, they charge more but they also pay much more than grocery stores do to stock it. If you as a station cannot do $30,000+ a week in inside sales excluding cigs/lotto, which no gas station can, then you cannot get decent wholesale pricing from suppliers. A station literally pays more for 20oz coke than what I can buy it for at some local grocery stores when they're running specials.
[Edited by: blinktwice at 8/17/2008 8:14:53 PM EST]
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gasmizer11
Veteran Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 6:16:16 PM
I re-read your post CaptSquid. So your former landlord was in the gas business and had only small success. Not all retailers are small. If a gas retailer is making 3-4 cents profit and making $2000 dollars a day, filling 1000 vehicles with average fills of 50L, over the course of year as I mentioned that would equate into a tidy $728,000 profit, not including the other sundry items like confectionary and car washes and services. Unless I am unclear on the meaning of profit that is when all other expenses are paid first and you are left with a sum of cash. In this case the profit made on fuel would be $728,000 per year. In addition to the profits that retailers make, don't forget that the oil companies themselves make profit selling the wholesale gas to the retailers and again on the pump price. The only guys who are leaving the business right now I am sure are the ones that are too small to compete with the big c/stores. There are many in my area that are small and seem to be in business, they must be making something???
[Edited by: gasmizer11 at 8/17/2008 6:19:50 PM EST]
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shane8005
Champion Author
Ohio
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 6:15:08 PM
yeah no kidding they are. but you said it yourself. record profits. plain and simple.
ever consider that the record profits are coming from record prices? how much was a barrel of oil 3 years ago? how much is it now? what kind of results do you think that will have?
the prices on the c-store items? they are hiked, not lower. they make better profits on them than regular stores.
and of course they make money on fuel sales. otherwise most would stop selling fuel altogether. saying they certainly do not make money on gas is a little fanatical.
even if what you are saying was true, should i accept the high prices? should i just pay whatever they want me to? what point are you even trying to make here?
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CaptSquid
Champion Author
Billings
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 5:27:59 PM
Once again, slowly. The reason oil companies are showing record profits is because they are SELLING RECORD QUANTITIES. Gas stations make money ONLY on services and convenience store items, not gasoline. Because of the prices on the C-Store items, they don't make that much money on them, either. They most certainly do NOT make money on fuel sales.
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shane8005
Champion Author
Ohio
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 3:50:44 PM
oil companies are making record profits and very few gas stations are losing money. am i wrong?
if you pity their hard times so much, buy an SUV and fill up at the most expensive station. enjoy.
[Edited by: shane8005 at 8/17/2008 3:51:22 PM EST]
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CaptSquid
Champion Author
Billings
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 2:42:12 PM
gasmizer, please re-read my post. My former landlord owned a gas station. Where he made his money was in garage services, not fuel sales. The traffic on his corner wasn't spectacular, usually about 1-3 cars per hour. He confirmed that he made a piddly 5¢ profit per gallon of gasoline.
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gasmizer11
Veteran Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 9:44:55 AM
How much does a gas station make in a day or week or month? What are the costs of doing business? CaptSquid says there is insurance, wages, utilities, taxes and licence fees. I am positive there are more expenses. So if the consumers put 50 litres of gas in their tanks on average, and the station receives 1000 customers a day that fill up, plus the four cents profit you are looking at $2000 per day. That is $14,000 per week and $728,000 per year. Then you have the other items that are sold, cigarettes, soda, candy bars, potato chips, car washes, additives, oil, perhaps a garage etc...with there being so many gas stations I don't think that they hurt that badly otherwise there wouldn't be as many as there are. In Canada it is said that the average retailer only makes 3-4 cents profit on every litre of gas or diesel, how is it in the US that they only make 3-4 cents per gallon when a gallon is 3.8 times more than a litre?? Should it not be closer to 9-12 cents profit?? No one is losing any money in the oil business
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catfish99
Champion Author
Wilmington
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 7:46:32 AM
Here's some proof for you shane:
Washington Post
Is the Washington Post a good enough source for you? Or is the Post in the pocket of Big Oil, and lying? If they are, then so are the smaller papers:
Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal
And so is McPaper:
USA Today
You came to this discussion with a misconception, and when folks who knew the truth tried to inform you of the real profit levels for station owners, you resorted to name calling and accused them of having a hidden agenda.
Care to apologize?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author
Winnipeg
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 5:54:16 AM
shane8005, you confuse the billions of dollars profits by oil companies, which still average 7% to 8% return by the way on the hundreds of billions of dollars invested, with the few cents a gallon profit earned by the franchise holders running the corner gas bars. There is a reason ExxonMobil is selling the rest of the corporate stations as franchises. The stations bring down the profit percentages. There is a reason old stations are enlarged and modernized, and many have large, clean, and very diverse convenience stores, many with hot snacks and specialty beverage, and newer touchless car washes, and that is because it is the snacks and carwashes that allow them to actually employ neighbourhood kids saving money to go to college. The smaller, gas-only stations that haven't disappeared are mostly run by family because there isn't enough margin to pay for employees. The last of them, if they don't expand into stores, car washes, or car service, will be gone as soon as there is no more family to work them. We actually have a lot of stations in our area, many of them Petro-Canada, that have completely pulled the pumps, and gone to car service only under the Petro-Canada Certigard name, and are doing better WITHOUT the gas.
As for those of us that disagree with you, there is no reason to insult us with dumb comments like calling us oil company executives, or brainwashed dummies. I would be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that some of us have been driving longer than you have been alive. We have seen it all before, and we have heard it all before.
[Edited by: rumbleseat at 8/17/2008 6:02:10 AM EST]
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CaptSquid
Champion Author
Billings
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 4:32:46 AM
Yeah, record profits. Because they sell a record amount of product -- amount, not dollar. Remember, oil is a world-wide commodity.
No, I'm not a disciple of Big Oil. I didn't crawl from under the same rock as you. I'm a realist. I look up things. I do my research. I don't jump on the next junebug like a starving duck. Big Oil may not be losing money, but there are stations being closed every day. My former landlord owned the gas station next to my apartment complex. Sure, he made money, but nothing he could write home about. When he bought the apartments, he started realizing a profit right away, despite having to sink massive amounts of cash into repair and maintenance on the apartments. The profit he was making from the apartments soon eclipsed the income from the gas station (which included a mechanic). He sold the gas station and never regretted his decision. BTW, the complex had 18 units.
Shane, you should start doing your homework before you open your mouth.
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chocolateflash
Champion Author
San Diego
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 2:35:08 AM
I eyeball each and every post I make. Believe it or not, these peopl lie like the proverbal rug, or don't speak enough English to answer a simple question.
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shane8005
Champion Author
Ohio
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Message Posted: Aug 17, 2008 1:28:09 AM
who are you? are you the CEO of an oil company? are you another dick cheney disciple logging on here? you really think they're having a rough time? record profits (record, as in no one ever in any business has made as much money) every quarter mean anything to you?
from under what rock do all these people in favor of the gas/oil business come from? it blows my mind!
apparently the brianwashing machine works because this is insane!
[Edited by: shane8005 at 8/17/2008 1:29:33 AM EST]
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CaptSquid
Champion Author
Billings
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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2008 7:15:35 PM
Out of that profit, the station owner/franchisee pays:
Insurance
Wages
Utilities
Taxes
License Fees
Plenty of income? Yeah, right.
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Xpoint
Champion Author
Idaho
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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2008 4:21:14 PM
If gas stations (read Oil Companys) werent making any money, there wouldn't be one on every corner.
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shane8005
Champion Author
Ohio
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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2008 4:17:09 PM
their profit margin may not be large, but in a day, they make plenty. no one is losing money at any level of that business.
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jeff19446
Rookie Author
Philadelphia
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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2008 9:18:06 AM
I agree with Shane
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flyboy
Champion Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2008 3:24:44 AM
The profit realized by the fuel station is small. That is because the wholesaler, who knows exactly how much the station makes, demands as much as possible from the retailer. The price is really set by what the oil companies ask their retailers, and the retailers are left to fend for themselves.
That is not to suggest that we should pity the retailer, they will communicate their problems quickly to the oil wholesaler. Then the oil companies may adjust what they ask in the interest of their retailers survival. The retailers are party to the vast amount of our money that ends up in the oil companies' account.
This is why we should shop only at the least expensive station. The oil companies are watching.
[Edited by: flyboy at 8/16/2008 3:28:40 AM EST]
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CaptSquid
Champion Author
Billings
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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2008 2:39:05 AM
A typical gas station realizes a whopping 5¢ profit per gallon sold. Where gas stations make their money is on services -- mechanics or convenience stores. Joe Gasjockey is a working stiff, not making a staggering profit.
Big Oil, on the other hand, makes their profit on VOLUME. Simply put, they sell A LOT OF PRODUCT. That, theRealAirness, is where their profit comes from.
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theRealAirness
Veteran Author
Vancouver
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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2008 2:21:21 AM
They are already making record profit. How can they squeeze so much out of us. They are so evil. It must be stop at all costs.
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shane8005
Champion Author
Ohio
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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2008 10:11:22 PM
losing money? really? seriously? come on. they aren't losing crap. what makes you think that? have any proof or references?
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cornerman
Veteran Author
Idaho
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Message Posted: Aug 14, 2008 1:55:29 PM
Prices cannot be driven down anymore than they are .The stations that are selling the fuel are at the bare minimum as it is actually losing money on 70-75 percent of fuel sales because if the consumer uses a credit card the percentage we pay to the credit card companies is more than the profit we have in a gallon of gas.You do the math how can ya drive that down any more.Guess you could be just buying straight from the tank farms thats the only way you could get it cheaper .It may have to be that way soon because the stations cant bare the burden of the credit cards without passing that cost on and people dont like hearing that either
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HeavyDuty_cache
Champion Author
Omaha
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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2008 10:41:32 PM
If I worked at a station and someone called and asked me the price, I would tell them it was 20 cents cheaper than it really was.
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shane8005
Champion Author
Ohio
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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2008 9:11:25 PM
ok i guess i am retarded. someone close the thread before i sound even more stupid.
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CaptSquid
Champion Author
Billings
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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2008 8:12:21 PM
Shane, the PTB have already determined that you must SEE the prices. Hearing isn't good enough.
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Dreama71
Veteran Author
Florida
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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2008 7:30:32 PM
Stations here won't give out prices over the phone saying that they might not be that price by the time we get there.
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jimmytwoguns
Champion Author
Kansas
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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2008 6:10:42 PM
Yeah I can see that turning into a big nightmare for the stations in no short order...the stations get deluged with frivolous calls coming in asking for prices to the point they have to add extra counter help just to answer the calls and then promptly raise the price of goods sold to accommodate the extra labor and the consumers end up paying for it.
BTW most of the stations in our area have a policy not to give out prices over the phone for just that very reason and I certainly can't blame them in the least.
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shane8005
Champion Author
Ohio
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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2008 6:09:20 PM
well i think heard is good enough. god forbid we get more prices posted and help ourselves save money more.
why are so many people so oppositional to anything that might actually help us drive prices down?
how many times is someone going to add to my belief that dick cheney signs on anonymously and tries to mess with our plans?
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CaptSquid
Champion Author
Billings
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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2008 5:59:39 PM
You're not supposed to post prices you haven't seen.
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