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Author	Topic: Reduce Posting Abuse by Eliminating Website Updates - GPS Phones Only	Post a Reply Back to Topics

herndonks Champion Author Baltimore Posts:1,116 Points:211,685 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Dec 31, 2011 4:08:58 PM Ignore herndonks Report Abuse I am a new member in the Baltimore area and have noticed that there are a number of prolific price posters who appear to be reposting prices posted earlier by others, without even seeing the price signs with their eyes. This gives the false impression that the price is recent, when in fact it could be more than 12 hours old. I PROPOSE THAT GB CHANGE THE SYSTEM SO THAT PRICE UPDATES CAN BE MADE ONLY FROM GPS ENABLED PHONES WHEN THE GPS IS SHOWING THEM TO BE WITHIN 1 MILE OF THE STATION. WITH SO MANY SMART PHONES IN USE, THERE IS NO NEED FOR UPDATES ON THE WEBSITE, AND ACCURACY OF POSTED PRICES WOULD BE IMPROVED. I first became suspicious weeks ago when I saw prices being posted for a closed gas station, and I don't mean closed for the night, I mean demolished and now a vacant lot (the station has since been marked in the master station list as closed).

herndonks

Champion Author
Baltimore

Posts:1,116
Points:211,685
Joined:Dec 2011

Message Posted: Dec 31, 2011 4:08:58 PM

Ignore herndonks Report Abuse

I am a new member in the Baltimore area and have noticed that there are a number of prolific price posters who appear to be reposting prices posted earlier by others, without even seeing the price signs with their eyes. This gives the false impression that the price is recent, when in fact it could be more than 12 hours old. I PROPOSE THAT GB CHANGE THE SYSTEM SO THAT PRICE UPDATES CAN BE MADE ONLY FROM GPS ENABLED PHONES WHEN THE GPS IS SHOWING THEM TO BE WITHIN 1 MILE OF THE STATION. WITH SO MANY SMART PHONES IN USE, THERE IS NO NEED FOR UPDATES ON THE WEBSITE, AND ACCURACY OF POSTED PRICES WOULD BE IMPROVED. I first became suspicious weeks ago when I saw prices being posted for a closed gas station, and I don't mean closed for the night, I mean demolished and now a vacant lot (the station has since been marked in the master station list as closed).

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herndonks Champion Author Baltimore Posts:1,116 Points:211,685 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Feb 6, 2012 1:28:12 PM Ignore herndonks Report Abuse As a new member I want to thank all of the members who have replied to my post, and all of those who post in the near future. I have learned alot. My thoughts and observations so far: A - My proposal to use only smartphone updates would not work, for a variety of reasons. B - Errors in posting would be reduced if the system allowed updating for only those grades of fuel listed as available in the MSL. C - There would likely be less reporting abuse by new members using smartphone if there was no awards system. It would be nice if the awards were taken out of the app, but I doubt that will happen. D - I use a smartphone for most of the price reporting that I do, and I think the biggest annoyance for me with the app is that it does not do a good job of displaying the stations closest to my location. I sometimes have to tap the "reload" button several times, and sometimes display a different grade before the proper station listing by distance is displayed. I think part of the problem is how the app stores the latest GPS locations (it sometimes thinks you are located where you were more than a day ago). As an experienced user of the app I have learned how to work with it, but I am sure that for new or infrequent users it contributes significantly to reporting errors that would not occur if the website was used as the reporting tool. With respect to ethanol-free gas, I don't think it is available in the Baltimore area. Maryland law does not require stations to label pumps with gas containing ethanol, and I am reasonably sure that all our gas contains ethanol (at least now, that may change with the changes in the subsidy and the changed economics). The main reason for my original posting is the prolific reporting of prices by a couple of members without their actually seeing the station price signs. They simply re-report prices posted earlier by other members. I am just thankful that it is not much of an issue in the Glen Burnie, MD, area where I live. I mostly see it in the area northeast of Baltimore where I work (what is somewhat disturbing is that it is done by a couple of longtime members with high point counts). I combat it by reporting prices myself as much as I can (but I more often than not drive I95 rather than US Rt40, where the stations are mostly located). I also use my own price observations rather than GB price info when picking a station at which to refuel when in the area near my work site. Thanks again for the feedback!
RichWLIN Champion Author Indiana Posts:4,072 Points:634,865 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Feb 6, 2012 6:37:08 AM Ignore RichWLIN Report Abuse Gas_Buddy, I can see where it would become difficult to understand prices, particularly if two separate regular fuels (with and without ethanol) are being sold. I haven't seen this around here; although, I have to admit that I don't travel much in the winter months. I also understand the frustration of false price posting that the OP expressed even though his solution doesn't seem tenable. Just in the stretch of highway that I live near, there are people posting $.10 fuel grade increments for all of the stations even though this isn't the case. I suspect that it does little damage since the regular and diesel prices are typically correct, but this does call in to question the honesty of someone willing to guess at prices ostensibly to accumulate points or award levels. RG
Gas_Buddy Champion Author Maryland Posts:25,947 Points:3,030,065 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 6:15:53 PM Ignore Gas_Buddy Report Abuse Rich: Regarding price differences, etc. Jacksonville, FL (where I am now) has one gas station that I know that has ethanol free gas, fluctuating between 50 cents and close to $1 per gallon higher priced than regular. I simply post the regular price and note in the comments section the general price difference for ethanol free. On the other hand, a problem (my word) is that many gas stations here on the overhead sign post the regular, premium and diesel price; other stations of the same brand post the regular, mid-grade and premium price; still others post two prices, with some posting the regular and premium price, and others posting the regular and diesel prices. For someone that is used to seeing the regular, mid and premium prices, it's easy to mis-price post a station that (in actuality) that shows regular, mid and diesel. To me, most errors in posting are just that; mistakes, and not intentional. And you'll get mistakes as long as different gas stations indicate their prices differently, or (and it's not realistic) people are required to actually confirm the price, rather than simply driving by and assuming what each price is. I would like to be able to post the non-ethanol price but to do so would mean I'm not posting "the other" regular price, even though the non-ethanol price is a "regular" price. One of th
RichWLIN Champion Author Indiana Posts:4,072 Points:634,865 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 9:36:37 AM Ignore RichWLIN Report Abuse Thanks Scrapheap. I wasn't aware of this.
Scrapheap Champion Author Virginia Posts:14,524 Points:2,354,830 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 9:09:59 AM Ignore Scrapheap Report Abuse RichWLIN - This is a regional issue that has come up before in the forums. If you spot check towns in Nebraska, you will find it is state wide. It also occurs in Iowa. I think it has to do with the corn lobby in some of these states.
RichWLIN Champion Author Indiana Posts:4,072 Points:634,865 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 8:59:02 AM Ignore RichWLIN Report Abuse zantwoe, this is straying a bit off topioc for this thread but since you brought it up I'm wondering if the stations you mentioned that are offering non-ethanol regular are Nebraska-wide or just in your area? I would gladly pay an extra $.10/gal. for non-ethanol regular. Around here, all we have is premium non-ethanol and it's typically $.50-$.60/gal. higher than regular with ethanol. The problem with members entering false $.10 increments in fuel grades seems to be widespread. RG
Scrapheap Champion Author Virginia Posts:14,524 Points:2,354,830 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 8:02:54 AM Ignore Scrapheap Report Abuse Pretty interesting that if you look at any of the stations on the low/high list in Nebraska posted by somebody with a red car icon, the mid grade is always lower than regular. If you click on prices posted by people with no icon or a brown icon, not so much.
scoutmaster Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:81,169 Points:3,249,020 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 6:52:58 AM Ignore scoutmaster Report Abuse Really? Regular is 10¢ higher that mid-grade? Based on what I see on the Nebraska board, that doesn't play out.
zantwoe Rookie Author Nebraska Posts:33 Points:263,885 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Feb 3, 2012 1:49:03 PM Ignore zantwoe Report Abuse I am relatively new to GB, but here is my new user opinion. I usually use my smartphone to post prices and will often turn on the GPS before I post. I don't know if using the GPS makes my postings more authentic, but I do it just in case. Here in Nebraska, regular fuel is priced approximately 10 cents HIGHER than midgrade (midgrade includes ethanol - regular is ethanol free), and occasionally someone will pass through town and post these prices reversed (I guess they wrongly think the midgrade is the higher price) I just correct the wrong prices as I notice them. I like being able to post prices via the website when it is not convenient to use my smartphone. I would like it better if a station had fields to post prices in only if they actually have those grades available.
Michael29644 Champion Author Greenville Posts:4,940 Points:838,300 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Feb 3, 2012 12:48:59 AM Ignore Michael29644 Report Abuse This would be an excellent idea.... ...for killing off the site entirely. Bad idea of epic proportions.
jpgredwine Champion Author Hartford Posts:10,282 Points:1,046,330 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Jan 22, 2012 9:19:53 PM Ignore jpgredwine Report Abuse Cracked ... I've agreed in the past to support some feature such as the graying out of diesel price when diesel fuel is not sold at that gas station therefore preventing mistakes, error or even false entries. There is one station around us that doesn't sell mid-grade, yet this station frequently gets entered for that fuel grade. If we had the ability to gray them out in the MSL, that would be a big help. But too often around here there are cash entries into the credit fields for all grades and it just becomes a big hassle to repeat a tedious reporting scheme when a small reporting tool or application would do the job much faster and more accurately with all the basic information pre-filled. Of course, if this or any other function of filling out prices for GB were incorrect, this also wouldn't be right and it's the basic trust of GB members that all of this work out correctly for the good of all. I think that if the premise of every change comes not with a good dose of scepticism but with an inherent distrust that fraudulent acts will be committed, then I don't know how many improvements can be made to the existing system. --- Maybe, just maybe, that's why for instance that the new GB apps with their little reward system was created without any input from existing members. Maybe the bosses just didn't want to listen to any criticism before it was hatched. Just my opinion, could be wrong of course.
CrackedLCD Champion Author Alabama Posts:9,015 Points:1,750,300 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jan 21, 2012 2:04:18 AM Ignore CrackedLCD Report Abuse Because prices can change so rapidly, I'm not sure a tool to report users posting wrong prices is a good idea. But making it easier to zero out obviously fake prices or not showing prices for grades of fuel that aren't sold at each station would be a good compromise.
jpgredwine Champion Author Hartford Posts:10,282 Points:1,046,330 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Jan 20, 2012 7:17:35 PM Ignore jpgredwine Report Abuse I also oppose pricing updates from only GPS enabled phones. My cellphone is also the older type without GPS location ability and I wouldn't want one of these phones anyway. All my pricing is from my computers at home. I use pen or pencil to write down prices on a printout of my FSL after I've observed gas station prices by actually driving into them, stopping for a few seconds to record the prices listed on the gas pumps and then pull away. Much more accurate getting the real selling price of fuel rather than from those manually adjusted pylon signs. I wish that GB would have an easier way to report members who report bad prices. Where you could simply click on "report inaccurate price" and virtually all information needed like the inaccurately reported price plus the inaccurate reporter of these along with the time and location of the occurrence would be automatically filled in for you with another button click to send it back to GB for review or action. It's one thing to notice these problems and then a hassle cutting and pasting all the information onto the contact form back to GB, filling out all that information and then either zeroing out prices or replacing them and so forth. Just seems like this hassle may likely be preventing some members from weeding out many more of the inaccurate prices that seem to have popped up since the introduction of "smart" phones.
scoutmaster Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:81,169 Points:3,249,020 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: Jan 20, 2012 7:01:43 AM Ignore scoutmaster Report Abuse "You can delete prices using the full website. You have to search for the bad price using either an area search or using the map, click on the bad price and enter a price of 0. This works as long as the bad price is not older than the normal expiration time of the site the station is in (24 hours on weekdays, 36 hours on weekends in Florida)." This method works every time if you use the area search regardless of when the price was posted. Some site have a 60 hour expiration time on weekends.
gatekeepertwo Veteran Author Wilmington Posts:389 Points:187,120 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Jan 19, 2012 11:48:36 PM Ignore gatekeepertwo Report Abuse I agree with CrackedLCD that banning website updating is not the answer because using smartphones while driving is not safe or practical. Also pulling over to stay within one mile to report a price is not always feasible. I like the idea of using the MSL to lock out closed stations or nonexistent grades.
CrackedLCD Champion Author Alabama Posts:9,015 Points:1,750,300 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jan 7, 2012 6:13:52 AM Ignore CrackedLCD Report Abuse Banning website users is a dumb idea. Judging by the time stamps shown on all the wrong prices around here, people are doing it from their cell phones, one station at a time. I often bulk-note prices for my town then come home and post them all at once, back-timing to when I saw the prices. It's easier and safer than trying to do it in traffic or while moving. Also, if a station is listed as closed in the MSL people can still post prices if it's in their favorites list. We have a station here that closed last week and left their prices up, so all day people are pulling in and trying to buy gas. I closed the station in the MSL but someone is still reporting the price (which by now is 20¢ a gallon lower than anyone else in town!) You wanna help this site run better, advocate for only allowing stations to show up if they're actually open, and only allow grades to be posted if they are checked in the MSL!!!
Scrapheap Champion Author Virginia Posts:14,524 Points:2,354,830 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Jan 6, 2012 8:44:32 AM Ignore Scrapheap Report Abuse tiki4 wrote > I have accidentally reported a bad price for a station on diesel, but the one problem with the site and the app is that we dont have any way to delete the entry after the error is discovered. You can delete prices using the full website. You have to search for the bad price using either an area search or using the map, click on the bad price and enter a price of 0. This works as long as the bad price is not older than the normal expiration time of the site the station is in (24 hours on weekdays, 36 hours on weekends in Florida). If the price is older, there is a work around of entering a bogus price again, this will remove the older price, and then deleting the new bogus price with the above method. Incidentally, I proposed a while ago in this thread that they allow deletion of prices from the apps, mobile site and FSL.
tiki4 Rookie Author Florida Posts:19 Points:591,640 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Jan 5, 2012 10:20:00 PM Ignore tiki4 Report Abuse Banning website updates is against the original process that this site was developed and shouldnt even be considered. A few bad apples does not make the site bad and there are other processes that can help keep it under control. As for the 1 mile rule...be for real. As was pointed out by another, we update when we can safely do it and sometimes that can be 2-3 minutes later and well outside of the 1 mile range if we are getting back onto the freeway. I have accidentally reported a bad price for a station on diesel, but the one problem with the site and the app is that we dont have any way to delete the entry after the error is discovered.
scoutmaster Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:81,169 Points:3,249,020 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: Jan 4, 2012 7:09:04 AM Ignore scoutmaster Report Abuse jerry972 is correct. The new awards for the mobile app are probably the root of all the garbage posts. People are trying to achieve the levels and are posting anything they want just to get there. These new awards mean nothing. I disagree with the OP. Not everyone has a smartphone. And since you can post from your favorites on a smartphone, distance should not make a difference.
jerry972 Champion Author Denver Posts:5,680 Points:1,372,830 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jan 3, 2012 10:28:56 PM Ignore jerry972 Report Abuse Herndock's proposal has two parts: 1) Phone updates need to be made within a mile of the station 2) Ban website updates I am like a lot of the other long-time respondents. I don't use my phone to update prices and only use the website. However, I do think limiting phone updates to close to the station would be a novel way to minimize some of the abuse. That said, I think the App contests are the root cause of driving bad behavior (both in accuracy and use of the phone while on the road) and should be discontinued. [Edited by: jerry972 at 1/3/2012 10:30:02 PM EST]
jrsva Champion Author Virginia Posts:9,830 Points:1,608,250 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Jan 1, 2012 11:38:29 PM Ignore jrsva Report Abuse Anyone who thinks all reporting should be via mobile phone does not know much about living in the country. In my part of the world, mobile service is spotty at best. There are dozens of stations that would never be reported because there is no mobile service available. Fortunately this is a suggestion that is not going anywhere. Scrapheap has a good point about the mobile awards system. This is another GB frill that is largely counterproductive and should never have been implemented. Members should report accurate prices in order to help others. Special incentives simply encourage fraudulent posting to gain whatever award is offered. Recently someone from a distant city posted all 3 grades of gas for a small station near here that sells only regular. Please be vigilant in your area and report this sort of stuff to the Mods.
Scrapheap Champion Author Virginia Posts:14,524 Points:2,354,830 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Jan 1, 2012 2:49:17 AM Ignore Scrapheap Report Abuse herndonks wrote > I normally upload prices from my phone when I stop at a traffic light, and if I pass a station, just remember the 3 or 4 prices until I get to the next light. Since I don't seem to do well trying to remember more than 4 numbers while driving in traffic, I pass close to half the stations without reporting the prices. Maybe I should try a notepad, but doing that is no better than tapping numbers on a phone screen (especially since half my driving is in the dark). First of all, when Maryland was going to institute the ban on texting while driving, the police were claiming they were going to ticket you even if you were stopped at a light, and even if you pulled over and stopped. You are still breaking the law. A safer way would be to download a voice recording app, record the prices as you go and report them using a computer when you have a chance. herndonks wrote > Do you have any suggestions for cutting back on the amount of price reporting by members who don't actually observe the prices? I was preparing to report a user for posting bogus prices for a station that does not sell diesel. I was collecting information to verify that the station does not sell diesel when another user came along an reposted the same bogus prices. This other user reposted prices for 39 stations in less than 7 minutes. If you drew a circle around these stations, they were all within about a 6 mile diameter (which is about the same distance that I see when I bring up stations using the app in this area). The stations were not posted in order of how one would pass them while driving. The stations were posted such that those closest to the center of the circle were posted first and those furthest away were posted last. It is quite obvious that these prices were posted by someone using the app. They were cheating to get credits for the Sunday Driver, Night Owl, Reporter, and Perfectionist awards all at the same time. So if I were to suggest something to fix the problem, I would get rid of the app awards. It is quite clear they have been responsible for many bogus prices. I've reported more people for posting bad prices in the 3 months since the awards came out as I had in the previous 5 years that I had been a member of this site. As to your problem, you have participated in this thread. The answer is to use the private messaging system to report the bad posters and the mistakes they are making to the moderators. If the bad posters don't have a good reason (i.e. they are reporting credit prices while cash prices are listed on the sign) and continue to post bad prices, eventually, they will be banned. I've gotten a few people banned over the years, usually station owners. [Edited by: Scrapheap at 1/1/2012 2:51:37 AM EST]
MARIOWERX Champion Author Vancouver Posts:15,904 Points:1,634,785 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jan 1, 2012 12:31:24 AM Ignore MARIOWERX Report Abuse I think by reading herndocks response he or she would rather disobey the Maryland cell phone laws, rather than he or she be slightly inconvenienced.
kwzh Champion Author San Jose Posts:20,631 Points:3,678,650 Joined:Jul 2001	Message Posted: Jan 1, 2012 12:04:21 AM Ignore kwzh Report Abuse If you have multiple instances of evidence that a particular member is gaming the system, then you should report it (with details, perhaps including screen shots) to the site administrators.
maxstar Champion Author Chicago Posts:18,459 Points:805,545 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Dec 31, 2011 5:57:18 PM Ignore maxstar Report Abuse I agree with Scrapheap and rumbleseat. The phone updates have relatively new to GB. It is PC updates that have carried the site since it began and my guess is that most of the updates still come by way of the PC. If your plan were instituted, only those that purchase a "smart phone" and pay for a data plan could update prices. My prediction would be a whole lot of prices would not be updated making GB less useful to anyone. There will always be wrong prices either by mistake or (in rare instances) intentionally. The way around wrong prices is to have more updates not fewer.
herndonks Champion Author Baltimore Posts:1,116 Points:211,685 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Dec 31, 2011 5:32:12 PM Ignore herndonks Report Abuse Scrapheap, thanks for the reply, you make some good points. I normally upload prices from my phone when I stop at a traffic light, and if I pass a station, just remember the 3 or 4 prices until I get to the next light. Since I don't seem to do well trying to remember more than 4 numbers while driving in traffic, I pass close to half the stations without reporting the prices. Maybe I should try a notepad, but doing that is no better than tapping numbers on a phone screen (especially since half my driving is in the dark). Do you have any suggestions for cutting back on the amount of price reporting by members who don't actually observe the prices? In the area where I drive to and from work, there are three members who report more than 50% of the prices reported. There are another 4 or 5 members, including me who also report a good number of prices, but not nearly as many. When I go home from work late at night some of the stations I pass are closed for the night, and on several occasions I have seen wrong prices reported for these just a few minutes earlier by one of the big reporters (the same one who was reporting prices for the demolished gas station, indicating that they were reposting prices posted by others earlier. Last night I was with my wife, and we reported prices at about 10 stations on the way home. For two of the ten stations I accidentally reported a price for one of the grades of gas one penny higher than the actual price. In the 20 hours or so since then, those two accidentally off by a penny prices have been re-reported two and three times; by two of the big three reporters, and by one other member who reports quite a few prices. I am estimating that somewhere between a third and half of the prices reported at stations along my route to and from work are not be members actually observing prices. This has been most noticeable during the last 10 days when prices have been going up and down alot. As of now, when it is time pick a station to buy gas, I just ignore prices posted by the several members I can see are gaming the system. Thanks again for the response and any ideas you may have.
rumbleseat Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:22,903 Points:3,526,800 Joined:Oct 2002	Message Posted: Dec 31, 2011 5:22:16 PM Ignore rumbleseat Report Abuse I don't have a Smartphone, and have no plans to buy one. My cell phone is 6 years old, and I am keeping it because my battery life is superior to 75% of the new phones, and my reception range is superior to 95% of the new phones. At such time as my phone dies, I will worry about a new phone, and not before. I don't use my phone to report gas prices, I use my home computer. If I am travelling, I use my laptop, usually in my hotel room. And there will always be some questionable prices. Some are from typo errors when entering on favourite lists, some are because people actually have a couple of stations mixed up, some are actually bogus, but a restriction such as you propose would eliminate many members who use their phones, and EVERYBODY who uses a computer. If I had to buy a Smart phone to report prices, I would just quit.
Scrapheap Champion Author Virginia Posts:14,524 Points:2,354,830 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Dec 31, 2011 4:20:08 PM Ignore Scrapheap Report Abuse I stongly disagree with this proposal. Many people do not have smart phones. It is far more difficult to add qualifying information such as "cash only" or "membership required" on a smart phone than on the website. Given the number of states where it is illegal to text while driving, I believe the number of reported prices will plummet if you have to be within 1 mile of a station using a GPS enabled phone and if people are actually obeying the law. I also strongly disagree strongly with anyone who says that the accuracy of prices reported from smart phones is superior to those from the website. If you make a mistake reporting a price on the website, you can delete it. You can not delete prices using an app or the mobile site. Furthermore, I have noticed that people have been misreporting prices. For example, they have reported prices for a Shell station when the prices were for another Shell station a couple of blocks away. I believe this is happening because people are reporting prices while driving and are not paying attention to make sure the station the station they are reporting has the same address and cross street as the one they spotted prices for. I think this is less of a problem on the website. Also, it should be noted that the reporting of bogus prices, particularly diesel for stations that do not sell diesel, has spiked ever since the Awards came out for the apps. [Edited by: Scrapheap at 12/31/2011 4:21:52 PM EST]