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Author	Topic: Ethanol Still Not Lowering the Real Cost of Gasoline	Post a Reply Back to Topics

antiguzzle Sophomore Author Wichita Posts:237 Points:20,545 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Mar 31, 2012 5:10:34 PM Ignore antiguzzle Report Abuse W W W DOT globalwarming DOT org/2012/03/29/ethanol-still-not-lowering-the-real-cost-of-gasoline/" --------------------------------------------------------------------------In the wake of high gasoline prices, the ethanol industry is making the rounds in Washington, and they want you to believe that the Renewable Fuel Standard has lowered gasoline prices by up to $.89 per gallon. This would be remarkable, if it were true." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------"The fact still remains that ethanol (at its current market share) is very inefficient. Taxpayers and consumers would be richer if the government dropped its support programs for it." [Edited by: antiguzzle at 3/31/2012 5:13:39 PM EST]

antiguzzle

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Wichita

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Message Posted: Mar 31, 2012 5:10:34 PM

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W W W DOT globalwarming DOT org/2012/03/29/ethanol-still-not-lowering-the-real-cost-of-gasoline/"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------In the wake of high gasoline prices, the ethanol industry is making the rounds in Washington, and they want you to believe that the Renewable Fuel Standard has lowered gasoline prices by up to $.89 per gallon. This would be remarkable, if it were true."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------"The fact still remains that ethanol (at its current market share) is very inefficient. Taxpayers and consumers would be richer if the government dropped its support programs for it."

[Edited by: antiguzzle at 3/31/2012 5:13:39 PM EST]

REPLIES (newest first)Ignore Short Messages

krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,338 Points:731,085 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 3, 2012 10:54:46 AM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse Shockjock1961 wrote: "Nobody says it is..." On the other hand, you are spreading false information even after it was proven wrong to you.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,138 Points:2,187,110 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 3, 2012 10:01:08 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Isb1955....it's not made from canned corn" Nobody says it is...
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,547 Points:54,690 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 3, 2012 9:36:10 AM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse Isb1955....it's not made from canned corn....oh boy....here we go again! :P
lsb1955 Champion Author Salt Lake City Posts:2,038 Points:521,520 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Apr 3, 2012 8:23:46 AM Ignore lsb1955 Report Abuse Corn is for human consumption not vehicle consumption.
goldseeker Champion Author West Virginia Posts:19,559 Points:2,720,765 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Apr 3, 2012 8:00:24 AM Ignore goldseeker Report Abuse I have yet to here from a single person that has converted a non FFV to e85 that gotten more than 14% reduction in mileage. The best I have heard is 6%, and many fall in the 10% range.
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,547 Points:54,690 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 3, 2012 12:36:06 AM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse This was posted on this thread tonight (Topic: EPA says many modern FFV's still losing 25% fuel economy domestic) "Many automakers do a real half-baked job of making a flex-fuel vehicle. Mostly it's just a programming change in the computer allowing a wider fuel map, and a FFV badge on the trunk. Buy a european FFV if you want to see an improvement. Saab's 9-5 FFV for example, has a variable boost turbo. On E85, it makes 20% more hp and 25% more torque than on gasoline, as well as 15% better fuel economy at cruising speeds. Even an old mid 90's Volvo 850 turbo runs better on high ethanol % than a "real FFV" from Ford or GM - the boost is controlled by a knock sensor. Higher octane, higher boost (to a point), more power and /or efficiancy. Makes me think the domestic auto makers just don't care to really try to make it work. -Matt" [Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/3/2012 12:38:53 AM EST]
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,338 Points:731,085 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 11:10:33 PM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse antiguzzle wrote: "Gamechanger and a few other ethanol fans on this site drive miracle vehicles. They are able to load their tanks with corn and see no mpg loss. In fact, some of gamechanger's moonshine crew on here actually get better MPG's than pure gasoline. Of course it's all B.S., but you have to admire their dedication." The only B.S. is the one written by you antiguzzle. I have explained to you once before how I was able to accomplish the same MPG while using E35. What is your experience using Ethanol mixtures above E10? [Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 4/2/2012 11:11:47 PM EST]
Dc5IntegraTypeS Rookie Author Vancouver Posts:18 Points:3,355 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 8:27:19 PM Ignore Dc5IntegraTypeS Report Abuse Ethanol is bad! not only does my car get worse fuel economy on it, ethanol also raises the prices of food stuffs that require corn. Sugar cane is much better for producing ethanol. I'm glad Chevron still sells 94 Octane, containing NO ethanol in my area :) [Edited by: Dc5IntegraTypeS at 4/2/2012 8:27:57 PM EST]
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,547 Points:54,690 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 6:21:04 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse antiguzzle is "clueless". Thinks he know everything. What are your credentials for your level of expertise AG? From what you posted on Jamie2012's topic...it's obvious to me that you don't have an ounce of common sense! You still haven't told me what you do for a living. [Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/2/2012 6:21:30 PM EST]
antiguzzle Sophomore Author Wichita Posts:237 Points:20,545 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 6:06:21 PM Ignore antiguzzle Report Abuse "Let's see, shocky and antiguzzle have never checked the mileage on anything other than E-10, if they've even done that, yet they claim to know more about mileage with E-40 than someone who has first-hand experience with it." I don't need to take a jump from a skyscraper to know that gravity works. Just wake me up on this whole debate when you find a way to change the laws of chemistry. Ethanol has less energy than pure gasonline - end of story.
jacksfan Champion Author Lincoln Posts:2,554 Points:1,238,830 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 5:48:12 PM Ignore jacksfan Report Abuse Let's see, shocky and antiguzzle have never checked the mileage on anything other than E-10, if they've even done that, yet they claim to know more about mileage with E-40 than someone who has first-hand experience with it. Sounds like something from the Dumb and Dumber sequel. Shocky, antiguzzle, do you enjoy watching what little credibility you have erode or are you just gluttons for punishment?
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,138 Points:2,187,110 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 4:30:30 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse Sounds like one of the old snake oil pitches to me. Next thing they will be telling you is that using E85 clears up acne, gives you fresh breath, will stop your wife from kicking the dog and makes you appear 25 years younger...
antiguzzle Sophomore Author Wichita Posts:237 Points:20,545 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 3:32:05 PM Ignore antiguzzle Report Abuse Gamechanger and a few other ethanol fans on this site drive miracle vehicles. They are able to load their tanks with corn and see no mpg loss. In fact, some of gamechanger's moonshine crew on here actually get better MPG's than pure gasoline. Of course it's all B.S., but you have to admire their dedication.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,138 Points:2,187,110 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 3:26:37 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse ethanoholic bias perhaps?
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,547 Points:54,690 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 1:01:21 PM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse Well we have driven with a blend as high as E40 and obviously have had very different experiences. We had no MPG difference. [Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/2/2012 1:06:28 PM EST]
sluggopyle Champion Author North Carolina Posts:23,608 Points:1,075,890 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 12:10:36 PM Ignore sluggopyle Report Abuse => You have to being using over E50 to notice any change in MPG <= I'm not sure what that sentence even means but E10 costs me 15 to 20% in fuel mileage versus E-free (and that's repeated and consistent in readings over five years). Since I drive 30,000 miles a year or more, that adds up, so on a cost-per-mile basis, E10 would have to be at least 15% cheaper to even compare to E0. But it isn't. E10: 32 to 36 mpg, best reading with all conditions just right = 39. E0: 40 to 45 mpg, best reading with all conditions just right = 50+. (last two tanks, 700 mile trip on E0: 45.7 and 44.6. Do the math.)
timmyC4 Veteran Author Twin Cities Posts:417 Points:60,600 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 12:06:01 PM Ignore timmyC4 Report Abuse Right On. Cars were not designed to run EFFICIENTLY on it. Pure gas is always better. Go the the experts who really check this stuff out and you will consistantly see you will get less fuel economy the more ethanol is in the tank. People with Geo Metros on this site have their S*&t together and can document the difference. http://geometroforum.com/topic/4737452/1/ Ethanol is Crap.
gamechanger2011 Champion Author Wichita Posts:1,547 Points:54,690 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 11:50:46 AM Ignore gamechanger2011 Report Abuse Sluggopyle...You have to being using over E50 to notice any change in MPG. We have driven E40 in a non FFV and had absolutely NO change in MPG. There is a difference with E85...that's 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. So save yourself some money! [Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/2/2012 11:54:51 AM EST]
sluggopyle Champion Author North Carolina Posts:23,608 Points:1,075,890 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 11:36:13 AM Ignore sluggopyle Report Abuse On the user end, simply burning E10 is more expensive for me, even with E0 at a higher price, since the mileage loss is significantly greater than 10%.
goldseeker Champion Author West Virginia Posts:19,559 Points:2,720,765 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 31, 2012 5:36:39 PM Ignore goldseeker Report Abuse And it would be even more remarkable if you were to post a true statement in here. Unfortunately that is something that you are not capable of.