honda0105

Champion Author
Tallahassee
Posts:18,818 Points:1,636,245 Joined:Nov 2008
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Message Posted: Oct 2, 2012 6:02:26 AM
INdependence is never going to happen in this century. LESS-dependence yes.
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DanMtz

Champion Author
Oakland
Posts:3,491 Points:1,270,050 Joined:Oct 2009
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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2012 2:43:44 PM
Something tells me energy independence is a long ways off.
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PDQBlues

Champion Author
San Diego
Posts:7,209 Points:1,475,050 Joined:Jan 2009
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 11:20:02 PM
US oil production is up, US gas usage is down, yet the price of gas is still too high.
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Van_Halen

Champion Author
Atlanta
Posts:2,959 Points:667,045 Joined:Apr 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 3:05:31 PM
. According to the Prophet Obama, this just can't be true because we have less then 2 percent of the world's oil! What a loser Obama is.
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sparky808

Champion Author
Honolulu
Posts:3,139 Points:624,685 Joined:Sep 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 1:24:12 PM
Thank you for posting.
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mrjames1818

Champion Author
New Jersey
Posts:1,686 Points:2,025,795 Joined:Mar 2004
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 12:13:04 PM
So then why are gas prices still so high????
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jiml1965

Champion Author
Harrisburg
Posts:3,077 Points:703,700 Joined:Jan 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 11:15:27 AM
good news
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puinsai808

Champion Author
Honolulu
Posts:3,697 Points:754,030 Joined:May 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 11:06:33 AM
ok
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orphancarguyPE

Champion Author
PEI
Posts:3,905 Points:758,100 Joined:Jan 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 10:51:09 AM
Gosh, statistics! The Bloomberg article has the SAME MISLEADING statement I have pointed out before--a case of starting out with apples, switching to oranges and hoping you won't notice what they did and question it, and then a switch back to apples. And its done TWICE in one paragraph!
Crude output did rise 3.7% to 6.509 million barrels a day for the WEEK ending Sept 21st, 2012. Imports declined 3.2% from the same period a YEAR earlier. Make it year/year or week/week and it can make some sort of sense, but not this mish-mash of 'feel-good' stats. Also, this is about oil, not all energy. The US has a serious shortfall of OIL, not nuclear, not natural gas, not coal, not electricity (from all those sources, plus renewables like solar PV, wind, and hydro) It wouldn't matter so much except its expensive and difficult to switch from crude oil over to other things, when you are so dependent on refined crude oil for aviation fuel, gasoline and diesel. While it is technically true that the US now covers 83% of its energy needs, that is including all types of energy. The exact figures on OIL are quite quite different!
Taken from EIA for the month ending August 2012. OIL 5.634 million bpd 48 states + 0.403 Mbpd Alaska = 6.037 Million bpd US prod. included with the oil production is 2.072 M bpd of 'NPGL' (natural gas plant liquids) for a total of 8.109 Mbpd. There is a further 11% from renewables such as bio-diesel, butanol (ie, bio-gasoline replacement), ethanol, methanol etc. There is also what is called 'processing gain' which is when you refine crude oil, you end up with more individual separate product than the amount of crude you started with, as some is co-mingled until refined. That is 1.116 M bpd, so the total 'oil' production is 10.130 M bpd.
Now imports. Gross imports are even higher, at 10.781 M bpd, but not ALL of that oil was ever imported to be used IN the USA. The USA has spare refinery capacity, and does 'custom refinery work' for other countries, mostly in the Caribbean and other places in the Western Hemisphere. So, Americans get the jobs refining it for say, the Bahamas. Imported in, refined, re-exported--it never was part of the total US imports picture, not really. And no, when you look at the bigger picture, the US is not net exporting its OWN oil. The US was last able to export its 'own oil' around December 1970.
The US exports 2.854 M bpd of 'oil', likely in finished form as gasoline, diesel, etc. So, out of all the imports, it 'uses' 7.916 M bpd. Add in the bookkeeping adjustments of -0.403 M bpd in stock (in other words, stock on hand average per day in August) and a correction to previous estimates of +0.703 M bpd, so the 'real' figure of inventory increased an average of 1.106 M bpd over 31 days during August, or a bit more less than half a day's extra supply on hand at the end of the month. The grand total of petroleum products supplied was 19,152,000 barrels per day or 593,712,000 barrels 'used' in August 2012.
What does this mean? Well, it was only a moment in time (one single month) and it means little in itself. All I can say is that the US domestically produced 10.781 Million barrels per day of 'oil' (including some *asterisk* equivalents to oil) and net imported 7.916 Million barrels per day. When you compare actual crude oil production (less renewables and refinery gain for the moment) its just slightly larger than net imports of crude oil. Add them back in and the US imports 7.916/(19.152-1.106 for adjustments) = 43.99% of the oil needed to run the country--at least during the month of August 2012.
At the peak of the boom around 2007 just before the banks and economies crashed in the (largely US caused) world-wide recession, the US was importing 60-61% of all the oil it needed. It has dropped to 44%. The change looks big, but it isn't all increased domestic oil production--far from it. Its a mix of increase, higher efficiency in all modes of transport (which is about 75% of all oil use), lingering economic slowness from the worst recession since the Great Depression, and consumers just not using as much ie carpooling, combining trips, foregoing road travel. When you consider that about a year after the crash, the figure was trending under 50% imports ie 2/3 of the drop in the import gap, you can figure out that actual increase in production was about 5-6% or a bit better than 1/3 of the decrease in imported oil. And THAT is over the last 5 years.
So remember--when you hear or see wildly misleading statements like the US went from importing 61% of its oil to supplying 83% of its own energy in only 5 years--know enough to question the figures and how they are compared
My own guesstimate is that--if the economy was fully back up to speed--the gap for OIL imports into the US would have dropped from 61% down to about 50-55% with US production supplying 45-50% tops.
It makes more sense to compare year by year or decade by decade. Also, there is LOTS of oil available from fracking, but the process of being completely free of imported oil from overseas (imports from Mexico and Canada are not considered 'overseas' in view of many analysts and commentators) is going to be much longer and slower than commonly thought. Even converting partially to natural gas from gasoline and diesel for vehicles will cost untold hundreds of billions and take a decade or two.
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IrishCowboy

Champion Author
Fort Wayne
Posts:1,437 Points:593,900 Joined:Jan 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 10:16:59 AM
Great, now we are getting more independent. So why is it costing more? You can't tell me it costs more to pump it here than it does to pump it over there and tanker it over here
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daquanabe

Champion Author
Houston
Posts:1,908 Points:390,650 Joined:Oct 2009
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 10:12:06 AM
Independence grows along with our gas prices.
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kmurphy345

Veteran Author
Toronto
Posts:457 Points:156,505 Joined:Oct 2010
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:45:20 AM
ok
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Houckster

Champion Author
Atlanta
Posts:9,407 Points:695,200 Joined:Sep 2003
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:36:30 AM
REDSKINGAS writes: And of course Obama takes credit for this even though the increase is due to private investors on private land. But then they didn't build that company, the government did. _____ First "redskin" is equivalent to "nigger" so I hope REDSKINGAS will reconsider his name.
Secondly, Mr. Obama does deserve some credit in that, contrary to Hard Right claims that he is inhibiting development of our resources, US oil production is up. Apparently, EPA regulations are not that restrictive after all. The Obama administration has been pretty pragmatic about energy development in this country. If you have a good plan and can develop the resource safely, you can get a permit.
As for energy production on federal land, a recent Washington Post article stated that deposits on federal land are pretty much optimally utilized and areas like ANWR will add very little to our supplies of oil.
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Houckster

Champion Author
Atlanta
Posts:9,407 Points:695,200 Joined:Sep 2003
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:29:03 AM
STUDEBAKER1940 writes: Get ready for $6. Hopefully before November so he sheeple won't re-elect Obama or any current legislatures _____ Honestly, some people will do anything to blast Mr. Obama. And of course STUDEBAKER1940 is all-knowing and the rest of us are "sheeple". Maybe we should elect STUDEBAKER1940.
Or perhaps, more importantly, STUDEBAKER1940 should come back to reality.
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MikLamb

Champion Author
Texas
Posts:8,120 Points:2,201,845 Joined:Jun 2006
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:19:56 AM
Good news.
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studebaker1940

Champion Author
Tampa
Posts:2,648 Points:712,305 Joined:Mar 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:14:33 AM
Get ready for $6. Hopefully before November so he sheeple won't re-elect Obama or any current legislatures
[Edited by: studebaker1940 at 9/27/2012 9:15:29 AM EST]
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RedRam2005

Champion Author
San Antonio
Posts:7,883 Points:1,524,690 Joined:Dec 2007
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:14:19 AM
Exports have gone up but prices have not come down...What is wrong with this picture? Almost everything!
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garjul

Champion Author
Flint
Posts:1,716 Points:674,140 Joined:Jul 2009
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:13:28 AM
Keep our oil here, then it will wean us off foreign oil dependency.
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RedskinGas

Champion Author
Tennessee
Posts:2,083 Points:1,144,860 Joined:Jun 2006
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:09:27 AM
And of course Obama takes credit for this even though the increase is due to private investors on private land. But then they didn't build that company, the government did.
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ss70

Champion Author
Detroit
Posts:9,930 Points:1,896,225 Joined:Sep 2005
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:08:59 AM
Good for refiners not for consumers at all.
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Tsunamiron

Champion Author
Jacksonville
Posts:1,569 Points:585,425 Joined:Mar 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:08:35 AM
Don't expect gas prices to ever come down. In fact, some states may see $5 per gallon next summer.
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cableman31

Champion Author
New York
Posts:8,917 Points:2,033,655 Joined:May 2004
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:08:21 AM
The SOLE PURPOSE OF THE KEYSTONE PIPELLINE IS TO GET ALBERTA OIL TO AN EAST COAST DEEP WASTER SEA PORT FOR EXPORT. To suck in the useless politicians they will divert a VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE of oil to the TEXAS refineries.
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40mpgsaturn

Champion Author
Wisconsin
Posts:2,595 Points:544,005 Joined:Jun 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:07:39 AM
Gas prices will still not go down!!
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BeatOPEC

All-Star Author
Indianapolis
Posts:870 Points:200,345 Joined:Apr 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:05:03 AM
Lets start keeping our oil here. Don't import from the Middle East.
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PhilMils

Champion Author
Virginia
Posts:6,322 Points:1,190,435 Joined:Dec 2008
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:04:21 AM
... and more gets exported. Reroute the planned Keystone XL pipeline to the refineries in the NE US. They must rely on the more expensive Brent crude because it is too expensive to truck in the oil produced in North America. The difference is about 45 cent per gallon.
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pulpwood

Champion Author
Mississippi
Posts:7,379 Points:1,860,855 Joined:Sep 2006
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:04:04 AM
America is the #1 Exporter of refined fuel in the world.
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suicyco16

All-Star Author
Phoenix
Posts:599 Points:310,835 Joined:Jun 2012
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:03:06 AM
good
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RichardoB

Champion Author
Fayetteville
Posts:8,137 Points:2,029,160 Joined:Jun 2007
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:00:48 AM
"Bloobberg" I like that.
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zwsn01

All-Star Author
Alabama
Posts:692 Points:464,195 Joined:Jan 2012
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 9:00:36 AM
Even if you drill more, we still have a bottleneck at the refiner level.
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ddkk

All-Star Author
Illinois
Posts:537 Points:1,309,180 Joined:Mar 2005
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:59:45 AM
If the U.S. is addicted to oil, . . .
then just how does it go 'Cold turkey' ?
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cssco

Champion Author
Virginia
Posts:7,463 Points:1,778,195 Joined:Feb 2006
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:59:21 AM
What is with the Bloobberg stuff at first word in this article? Fruedian slip?
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58salty

Champion Author
Jacksonville
Posts:6,826 Points:656,615 Joined:Aug 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:59:16 AM
Pump prices are still too high
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nerde

Champion Author
Florida
Posts:6,546 Points:1,339,470 Joined:Jul 2009
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:59:10 AM
It's Obama's fault!
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bell05

Champion Author
Atlanta
Posts:9,401 Points:1,902,585 Joined:Jun 2005
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:58:40 AM
Just don't think we should be Fracking.
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SSchmidty

Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:9,487 Points:1,803,630 Joined:Mar 2008
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:58:37 AM
Sooooo, we're talking pig-oil and their lackeys hedge fund traders who's greater interest is for more $$ not cheaper, safer use og gas!
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gilfarm

Champion Author
Alabama
Posts:6,931 Points:1,975,565 Joined:Sep 2005
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:57:06 AM
And we still have high prices!
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bsmerl

Champion Author
Florida
Posts:1,088 Points:396,835 Joined:Nov 2004
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:56:40 AM
stop screaming down with Obama and drill baby drill....
We need to focus on mitt's friends...wall street and big oil!!
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investmentdr

Champion Author
Cleveland
Posts:4,122 Points:1,479,935 Joined:Sep 2008
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:56:25 AM
oil independence is a misnomer
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k2kipp

Champion Author
Minnesota
Posts:3,238 Points:1,148,675 Joined:Sep 2005
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:54:55 AM
Dont know who to believe anymore.
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SaturnSC

Champion Author
Columbus
Posts:1,056 Points:856,725 Joined:Nov 2008
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:54:55 AM
Wow
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RochBear

Champion Author
Minnesota
Posts:10,549 Points:1,758,260 Joined:May 2006
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:54:48 AM
We still need to get off our addiction to oil.
We will not be truely "energy independant" until we make more use of wind/solar, since the Sun is the source of more energy than we could ever dream of using.
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mreiff

Champion Author
Louisville
Posts:5,488 Points:1,330,415 Joined:May 2009
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:54:16 AM
So why are prices still so high then?
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cheli2010

All-Star Author
Twin Cities
Posts:705 Points:303,220 Joined:Mar 2010
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:54:08 AM
so now we compete with the greed in our country in stead of others...
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FocusGuy

Champion Author
Seattle
Posts:7,192 Points:1,439,480 Joined:Apr 2009
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:52:52 AM
i really don't care anymore
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exd121

Champion Author
Ottawa
Posts:1,908 Points:481,550 Joined:Sep 2010
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:52:31 AM
and greed still raise gas prices
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bsmerl

Champion Author
Florida
Posts:1,088 Points:396,835 Joined:Nov 2004
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:52:19 AM
Republicans always find a way to blame Obama!!! He, the Democrat did it and prices are still high...i think all you Republicans need to find a NEW tree to bark up!!
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Gman2011MI

Champion Author
Michigan
Posts:2,060 Points:431,835 Joined:Apr 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:51:30 AM
because we have all these gas guzzlers............
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RockCity

Champion Author
Denver
Posts:8,050 Points:1,454,585 Joined:Mar 2009
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:51:26 AM
Methinks it quite obvious if mittens gets elected/handed the job by the supreme court, then big oil will find their freedoms returned so they can go back to exporting more jobs and oil. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure this stuff out, perhaps.
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Rick01

Champion Author
Utah
Posts:9,153 Points:2,388,700 Joined:Sep 2005
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:51:14 AM
Good, now we need to tackle Wall Street and the pump prices.
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Palantas

All-Star Author
Indianapolis
Posts:804 Points:425,315 Joined:Sep 2011
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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2012 8:49:49 AM
Yay for us.
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